Olin Moyles Ghost

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Posts by Olin Moyles Ghost

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  45

  The Theocratic Life and Times of Theodore Jaracz - NEW

  by Dogpatch in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the theocratic life and times of theodore jaracz .

  by barbara anderson.

  [we are doing a special focus on the dark side of brooklyn bethel for a couple of weeks over at freeminds.org].

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Great article! I agree that this belongs in the "best of" section. Thanks for posting, Barbara and Randy.
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  260

  Who Are Your Past Circuit Overseers? It's a small world..

  by mentallyfree31 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  who were your past circuit overseers?

  i'm sure a lot of us actually know mutual people, as the co's relocate all over the country.. here's a few from the southeast us: (let me know if you recognize any names and post yours too please...).

  ellwood johnson (new york/philadelphia area for several years also).

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  A few Circuit Overseers from the U.S. over the past 30 years or so:

  • Dave Mraz
  • Lyman Pinard
  • Joshua Steelman
  • Bob Coleman
  • Chuck Waller
  • Bob Sallee
  • Arnold Erickson
  • Charles Johnson
  • Kevin Wright
  • Henry Bennett
  • Jerome Henry
  • Lawrence Fix
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  36

  JW doctrines that annoyed or troubled you

  by Luo bou to in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  bloodguilt a doctrine that really annoyed me when i was in.

  like i was responsible for who jehovah destroyed..

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Good topic. Here are a few that troubled me when I was in:

  1. Only active JWs have a chance to survive Armageddon. I simply did not believe this.
  2. The "creative days" in Genesis were 7,000 years each. The Society doesn't teach this anymore, but they did when I was younger.
  3. Certain sins have to be confessed to men in order to be forgiven. Isn't that like Catholicism?
  4. Most of the "modern-day fulfillments" of Revelation (trumpet blasts = district conventions, 1260 days = WWI era, etc.).
  5. The whole idea of using "a day for a year" in certain places, but not in others. It always seemed a bit arbitrary to me.
  6. Witnesses should not go to university. While the Society has vacillated on this over the past several years, when I was growing up as a JW, college was highly frowned upon and was simply not considered an option.
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  9

  Throw out "doctrine" - Did the lack of true Christian Love drive you out of the WT?

  by lepermessiah in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  another argument i have used lately with my family is that even if the wt was correct on every doctrinal point (which obviously they are not) the biggest thing that drove me away was the lack of true compassion and "christian" love from the majority of the congregation, especially the elders.. i have been bringing up doctrinal points in small doses, but the biggest scriptures i use against them is john 13:35 (my disciples if you have love among yourselves) and 1 corinthians 13 (pauls description of love).. i love the irony, since the wt uses john 13:35 to "show" they are a true brotherhood, and they are using 1 cor 13 (love never fails) as their year text!

  the wt's version of love makes me want to vomit.

  i like how ray franz described it in his book - the wt produces people with generally good morals and an outward appearance of warmth, but underneath they typically lack compassion toward others.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Not for me. As is the case with most Witnesses, I had mixed results with "the friends," including objective mistreatment by JW authority figures. While these experiences were painful, I chalked them up to "human imperfection" and even "tests from Satan," as I had been conditioned to do.

  As long as I believed that the Watchtower Society was God's One True Organization, I was willing to put up with a lot. I wasn't going to let some "imperfect men" rob me of everlasting life!

  Of course, once I started digging into the doctrines (for example, the faithful and discreet slave, the last days, the Bible itself, etc...), the house of cards fell apart.
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  20

  Jw's and the endless "Special Campaigns" in the field ministry now

  by lepermessiah in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  everytime my family goes out in service now, its seems its for a new "special campaign".

  already this year has been:.

  1) memorial invitations.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  This has been a trend over the past few years. There was the big "End of False Religion is Near" tract campaign in 2006 (I guess it wasn't that near...four years later and there's plenty of "false religion" around). And, as you mentioned, lots of memorial and convention invites.

  I see this as a win-win for the Society and the Witnesses. The Society likes it because (1) it boots publisher numbers because it's so easy, and (2) it's cheaper to print four-page tracts than 32-page magazines and 192-page books!

  The Witnesses like it because it's easy and they don't really have to talk to anyone. And the only thing Witnesses hate more than going out in service is talking to people out in service!
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  12

  The Truth (as I seen it) according to Jehovah's Witnesses by Gary Busselman

  by Dogpatch in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  god is the creator, but since he only created michael,.

  and michael created everything else, ("all other things") .

  that would seem to make michael the real creator, .

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  This is a classic Garry Buss piece! By the way, I would love to see him come back to this board. He was one of my favorite posters when I was a n00b. I haven't seen anyone else cut through the "baloney" better than Gary.
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  121

  New Generation understanding tied to Freddie Franz

  by 5thGeneration in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  also don't know if this has been mentioned previously.. our speaker yesterday, gb member br.

  pierce, tied the overlap theory directly to fred franz's lifetime.. did anyone else catch this?.

  evidently (and i'm paraphrasing), anyone anointed after franz's death in 1992 is not of the 'generation'.. 5th.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Yes, it's in the outline. I recently attended part of a convention in order to hear this talk. (see my thread: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/195062/1/2010-District-Convention-Some-Thoughts-on-the-Sunday-Afternoon-Session) I transcribed the "generation" portion of the talk. See below:

  That brings us to the question here, or the topic, that at no time would we want to leave the "secret place." This is not the time to leave the "secret place," for that matter there wouldn't be any time to leave the "secret place." But especially now is no time to leave the "secret place." Why? Well, particularly in view of the recent clarification we had with regard to Matthew 24 and verse 34. Now turn over there, Matthew 24 and verse 34.

  We just had a Watchtower lesson last week with some fine material about this verse. Matthew 24:34: "Truly I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away until all things occur." Of course, the accurate or proper understanding of that really underscores the fact that we're living deep in the time of the end and there's a need at this time as never before for us to have an increased sense of urgency. Of course, that generation consists of contemporaries of individuals who lived at the same time.

  Now the Watchtower of--the 2008 Watchtower--the 12/15 issue, page 25 made this comment about the word "generation": it says the word generation usually refers to people of various ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period or event. Now we've got an example of that: Exodus 1, and verse 6. "Eventually Joseph died, and also all his brothers, and all that generation."

  Just think about what's written there--it refers to Joseph and all his brothers as "that generation." Now 10 of Josephs brothers witnessed events before Joseph's birth and at least 2 of those brothers lived after his death. So they were of a variety of ages but they were contemporaries and viewed as one "generation."

  Now, correspondingly, the word "generation" there at Matthew 24:34 is comprised--or comprises--two groups of anointed Christians. The first group was on hand in the year 1914 when the sign of Christ's presence first became observable. The second group of anointed Christians are those who were anointed later and for a time were contemporaries of the older group. Now in view of that, Jesus' words there in Matthew 24:34 indicate that some of the second group will witness the beginning of the Great Tribulation, so the length of the generation, while not specified as far as the number of years, but it's a limited period of time.

  Now we might illustrate it this way, F.W. Franz was born in the year 1893, he was baptized in the year 1913, so brother Franz was alive to discern the sign in 1914. Now Brother Franz, excuse me, Brother Franz lived until the year 1992, and many present-day anointed ones were his contemporaries and part of the generation that Jesus said would not pass away until all these things occur.

  Now in view of that, Brother Franz, and for that matter, other faithful anointed ones lived in very challenging time period. A very challenging time period where strong faith was needed in order for them to remain in the secret place of the most high.
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  43

  2010 District Convention - Some Thoughts on the Sunday Afternoon Session

  by Olin Moyles Ghost in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  out of a sense of morbid curiosity, i recently attended the sunday afternoon session of the district convention.

  the session consisted of a drama and the infamous "remain in the secret place of the most high" talk.

  overall, i got a sense that the wts is in damage control mode because the end hasn't come yet.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Yet another indication that this is a cult. When you throw something as preposterous as this out there and people actually buy it without question, then they are seriously indoctrinated and programmed.

  It all boils down to trust and fear. When JWs hear this stuff, they have two choices: (1) go with the flow, disregarding any doubts as the result of it being "too deep for me"; or (2) question whether this "spiritual food" from the FDS is actually correct.

  JWs will overwhelmingly pick #1 partly because they've been conditioned to trust what comes from the Society and to fear "the world" and the consequences of doubt. It's no accident that this new doctrine was highlighted at the last talk on the last day of the convention. For three days, the Society reinforced its position in the minds of the Witnesses as God's one true organization. And for three days, the Society cultivated fear of "the world" and of Armageddon. As a result, the attendees were primed and ready to accept whatever illogical, unscriptural nonsense came from the platform.
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  43

  2010 District Convention - Some Thoughts on the Sunday Afternoon Session

  by Olin Moyles Ghost in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  out of a sense of morbid curiosity, i recently attended the sunday afternoon session of the district convention.

  the session consisted of a drama and the infamous "remain in the secret place of the most high" talk.

  overall, i got a sense that the wts is in damage control mode because the end hasn't come yet.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Thanks for the comments, everyone. And sd-7, feel free to call me OMG. I think this new light buys them at least another 40 years or so. Assuming that to be a member of the second group, you had to be anointed (not just alive) during the lifetime of someone like Fred Franz, the youngest member of that group would be about 50 years old or so. As modern medicine continues to improve, no doubt some of them will live well into their 90s. Thus, the generation could be alive and kicking 40 or more years from now.

  On another thread, someone (I think it was sir82) mentioned that this new light could be a good way to marginalize the "new anointed" who have started partaking in the last few years. It creates an arbitrary cut-off point (1992). If you weren't partaking by then, you're not part of the "generation."

  I've got to admit, when I first heard of this "generation" new light on this board, I had a hard time believing it was true. It just seemed too crazy--even by WTS standards. Now, I still think they're crazy...crazy like a fox! This new doctrine jacks up the friends' sense of urgency and marginalizes those dangerous new partakers. Sounds like a win-win for the Society.
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  14

  The ad hoc Generation

  by TD in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  to me, the word, "generation" has always been one of those fuzzy terms with an annoyingly slippery definition set.. i have a blood relative who was the very youngest child in a family of 13. the age difference between him and his oldest siblings is more than twenty years and some of them were actually married and had children of their own before he was even born.

  therefore some of his nieces and nephews are actually older than he is.

  one nephew that he was especially close to when he was growing up is almost exactly his age, as they were both born in the same month of the same year.. a situation like this; where an uncle is the exact same age as his nephew can easily occur in very large families and makes you think about what exactly the term, "generation" really means.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  I recently attended a Sunday afternoon session of the convention and transcribed the "generation new light" portion of the final talk, "Remain in the Secret Place of the Most High). This speaker did not make it as clear that the overlapping anointed had to be anointed before the first group died off. See below (also see my thread here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/195062/1/2010-District-Convention-Some-Thoughts-on-the-Sunday-Afternoon-Session). The transcription follows:

  That brings us to the question here, or the topic, that at no time would we want to leave the "secret place." This is not the time to leave the "secret place," for that matter there wouldn't be any time to leave the "secret place." But especially now is no time to leave the "secret place." Why? Well, particularly in view of the recent clarification we had with regard to Matthew 24 and verse 34. Now turn over there, Matthew 24 and verse 34.

  We just had a Watchtower lesson last week with some fine material about this verse. Matthew 24:34: "Truly I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away until all things occur." Of course, the accurate or proper understanding of that really underscores the fact that we're living deep in the time of the end and there's a need at this time as never before for us to have an increased sense of urgency. Of course, that generation consists of contemporaries of individuals who lived at the same time.

  Now the Watchtower of--the 2008 Watchtower--the 12/15 issue, page 25 made this comment about the word "generation": it says the word generation usually refers to people of various ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period or event. Now we've got an example of that: Exodus 1, and verse 6. "Eventually Joseph died, and also all his brothers, and all that generation."

  Just think about what's written there--it refers to Joseph and all his brothers as "that generation." Now 10 of Josephs brothers witnessed events before Joseph's birth and at least 2 of those brothers lived after his death. So they were of a variety of ages but they were contemporaries and viewed as one "generation."

  Now, correspondingly, the word "generation" there at Matthew 24:34 is comprised--or comprises--two groups of anointed Christians. The first group was on hand in the year 1914 when the sign of Christ's presence first became observable. The second group of anointed Christians are those who were anointed later and for a time were contemporaries of the older group. Now in view of that, Jesus' words there in Matthew 24:34 indicate that some of the second group will witness the beginning of the Great Tribulation, so the length of the generation, while not specified as far as the number of years, but it's a limited period of time.

  Now we might illustrate it this way, F.W. Franz was born in the year 1893, he was baptized in the year 1913, so Brother Franz was alive to discern the sign in 1914. Now Brother Franz, excuse me, Brother Franz lived until the year 1992, and many present-day anointed ones were his contemporaries and part of the generation that Jesus said would not pass away until all these things occur.

  Now in view of that, Brother Franz, and for that matter, other faithful anointed ones lived in very challenging time period. A very challenging time period where strong faith was needed in order for them to remain in the secret place of the most high.